My guess is that both force and position feedback is a must for most applications. Servo motors also gain a torque advantage from their overall physical size. The "closed loop" rhetoric that some manufacturers play up sounds convincing to the uninitiated, but provides no benefit over a simpler and more reliable stepper system. Copyright © Motion Solutions 2020. Servos can now be controlled just like stepper systems and Multi-stepping systems with current reduction at stand still make them behave much more alike. The combination of speed and torque enables servo motors to deliver better acceleration than stepper motors. The servo motor takes blocks from its own encoder. Without further ado, let us jump right into Choosing the Right Motor for Your Project – DC vs Stepper vs Servo Motors! Like stepper motors, servo motors have many implementations. The same length of cabling used to control two stepper motors is shown on the right. Stepping angle of stepper motor is 1.8 degree or 3.6 degree. Rotation to rotation, stepper motors are highly repeatable. The Burny motor (top), while a servo unit, is far larger and more powerful, and can easily loaf along at the relatively low speeds needed for cnc cutting without the wear of high rpm operation. Never seen a bipolar stepper drive with an encoder hookup. This allows you to easily teach to as many students as needed. Although we command stepper motors with a resolution of typically between 25,000 and 50,000 counts per revolution, because the motor is a spring-mass system under load, our typical resolution is 2000 to 6000 counts per revolution. The Lincoln Electric® Torchmate® 5100 is our flagship industrial CNC plasma cutting table. For example, when using the RK II Series for positioning of a rotating table, its stopping accuracy is within ±0.05 degrees (with no load). At any given moment, it is very likely that you are near at least one or more types of motors. Don't rely on gearbox specifications provided by the company selling you the cnc machine. If for some reason a stepper motor does encounter an obstacle it can't overcome, such as a tipped up plate, it will simply skip steps, hurting nothing. in. The following paragraphs explain each of these types of motors in more detail. Bear in mind that the vast majority of cnc cutting movements with stepper motors are at less than 300 rpm motor speed, which translates to about 130 inches per minute on Torchmate machines. Let us make a detailed comparison between stepper motor and AC servo here. We give you complimentary access to our complete library of videos and resources to help your students learn as easily as possible. The build and design of this industrial CNC pipe cutting machine will be sure to stand the test of time in some of the harshest cutting environments on the planet. Thus, servo motors can deliver de facto holding torque. Closed-loop operation enables the controller/drive to command that the load remain at a specific position, however, and the motor will make continual adjustments to hold it there. However, there are key differences between the two that engineers must understand before deciding which motor is ideal for a given application. Our air plasma units are the FlexCut® 80 and FlexCut 125. Example: 0.72° Stepper Motor and Driver Packages RK II Series Consists of a high efﬁciency 0.72° stepper For applications requiring improved positioning accuracy and resolution, servo motors provide a better solution. If the drive commands a motor to advance 200 steps, however, it will do so to within just a few steps, which at that point represents an error of a few percent. If a servo motor encounters the same obstacle, it will sit there and fight itself until it breaks a gear tooth or burns up. So looking for precise solution either go for Servo or Stepper or make a U turn and use pneumatic, but again that will be difficult to get in India for cheap. Servo’s are the better choice in vertical applications in which the motor must hold a load still and for smooth operations while applications such as vision system positioning are better suited for a stepper motor. This feedback is provided by encoders, which in some respects, are like the bicycle wheels that some road builders and others use to measure distances. Stepper motors generally are not available in frame sizes larger than NEMA 34, with most applications falling in the NEMA 17 or NEMA 23 motor sizes. 2) Control precise. Best of all, its excellent low rpm torque lends itself perfectly to cnc plasma and oxy-fuel shape cutting, without the need for backlash producing gearboxes. Stepper motors consist of a rotor with permanent magnets and a stationary stator that carries the windings. The planetary gearbox on the Burny motor is a low backlash unit with 3 arc minutes of backlash, as opposed to cheaper planetary gearboxes with 6, or even 12 arc minutes of backlash. Thus the complexity of the system is at least doubled, with no accuracy advantage, greater initial cost, and more maintenance issues. This point brings up a common misconception about stepper motors, which is the myth of lost motion. Because of the high pole count and their ability to generate holding torque, they consume less power at zero speed. Whether your pipe cutting application requires oxy-fuel or high definition plasma cutting, you can rely on the Vernon Tool MPM to consistently provide high quality beveled cuts. The head is capable of cutting pipe with a bevel angle up to 45 degrees. This machine is built for pipe in 1-8 inches in diameter.*. The relatively simple circuitry involved provides great reliability, good low speed torque, and easy set-up. If a stepper motor goes bad, which can happen to all three types of motors, replacement cost is under $200.00. Because the drive is commanding the stepper to move to an angular location, lost steps are not carried over from rotation to rotation, however. A long time ago I built a hybrid stepper/servo system to modify a Unimat lathe for CNC. Sufficiently powerful stepper motors for a given application do not lose steps. ... Steppers are not more accurate, even at their native step resolution they can be off. No elaborate tuning process is needed to keep it functioning accurately. More details: Stepper Motor Pros: 1. These units are capable of cutting thicker material with extremely low amounts of dross. Performance comparison of the servo motor and stepper motor. As we discussed previously, the mass-spring nature of a stepper motor may result in a few lost steps. The high pole count allows them to generate very high torque at zero speed. We have used the program on a trial basis, and it does have a fair amount of functionality, although it lacked several features we considered essential. These industry leading plasma tables are the premier option in their class. Step motors are prized for their ability to provide precise positioning without a feedback mechanism or closed loop control system. Stepper motors also tend to be compact and inexpensive. I sell a product that uses a very small RS-775 DC servo motor (12VDC, 40A, roughly 1.75" OD x 2.5"L), to generate well over 30-ft-lbs of torque. Stepper Motor or Servo Motor, which one I need? Servo motors aid applications where sound and vibration need to be minimal. 1) Working principle. By Motion Control Online Marketing Team POSTED 04/18/2017. They are compact and generally economical (see figure 1). The decision tree for choosing between the two has many branches but the most important are speed, acceleration, and price target. in. Servo motors depend upon "closed-loop" circuitry to supply information back to the computer so that positioning errors can be continuously corrected. Short answer: * On light load, where finner motion is required stepper motor is (can be) used. A stepper is an open-loop system while a servo is a closed loop system. Although these small motors are expensive, larger intelligent motors would be far more costly. They Adding an encoder will enable the system to accurately track movement, but it will not be able to overcome the basic physics of the motor. by Bill Lackey | Oct 24, 2017 | Engineering Insights. So I'd say that a servo is better. They’re also more effective at acceleration than stepper motors thanks to both their speed and torque. Servo motors also gain a torque advantage from their overall physical size. In full-step two phases are on and in half-step only one phase is on. While most driver software, including ours, has a backlash compensation feature, it is never as accurate as the lack of backlash in the first place. Advanced robotic plate cutting machine designed for industrial applications. continuous torque are used on one new competitor's cnc machine, although this is disguised by the citing of output torque at the gearbox. This makes torque generation in servo motor more efficient due to the power of rare-earth magnets. Please refer to article “Work Principle Stepper VS Servo” for comparison of their working principle. However, above 1,000 rpm, a stepper motor’s torque begins to fall off, the result of magnetic circuit time constants and core losses. Stepper motors are relatively inexpensive, and provide the same or greater accuracy as servo motors. Rare-earth magnets enable the development of higher torque in a smaller package. Oxy-fuel cutting of thick steel can require speeds as slow as 2 or 3 inches per minute. Servo motor diameters typically range from NEMA 17 all the way up to 220 mm. If you are considering the use of motors with planetary gearboxes, be absolutely certain to find out the manufacturer and model of gearbox you are buying, and verify the backlash specifications on that manufacturer's web site. Servo motors can generate an upwards of 250 foot-pounds. Note, however, the zero-speed torque scenario depends upon the motor being sized properly to control the load and prevent oscillation about the commanded location. The velocity limit of typical stepper motors is usually under 1,000 rpm, whereas servo motors can have rated speeds up to 3,000 rpm and higher—sometimes even in excess of 7,000 rpm. Servo motor needs to high initial cost because its control system is more expensive. Servo motors are also very reliable, … Stepper motors are relatively inexpensive, and provide the same or greater accuracy as servo motors. Take a look at the software screen on our competition's web site, and then go to this link and compare: http://www.animatics.com/web/jen.htm. Since intelligent motors combine mechanical parts with computer circuitry, they are more likely to break down than external electronics with no moving parts. If the motor is being used to drive a ball-screw actuator or similar, it probably will not deliver sufficient speed to satisfy the needs of the application. As a result, it is unusual to find stepper motors capable of producing more than 1000 to 2000 ounce inches of torque. This machine has been refreshed with a new unitized design and touchscreen interface for all 5x10 models. Additional custom cabling connects a control box to the computer. Servo motors have significantly lower pole counts than stepper motors, however. properly utilized, steppers are accurate and are usually a more economical solution for low -speed applications (less than 1,000 rpm). The low speed torque makes it possible to use a timing belt and pulley reduction, with virtually no backlash. In this photo, the cabling on the left controls two intelligent motors. A. Servo motors are a better choice for systems requiring high speed, high acceleration, and high accuracy. Arduino Forum > Using Arduino > Motors, Mechanics ... but it is bigger and costs more. as a result of these combined factors, servo motors can deliver torques of up to 250 foot-pounds. Steppers are accurate and usually more economical for low-speed applications that run at less than 1,000 rpm. Motion Solutions is also a leading distributor of world-class automation and motion-control products. Servo motors are capable of delivering more power than stepper motors but do require much more complex drive circuitry and positional feedback for accurate positioning. Bill Lackey is vice president of engineered sales, Motion Solutions. Lincoln Electric offers a range of plasma cutters for your machine. We include a Master license of our CAD design software with every educational purchase, and unlimited student licenses! Stepper motors are no more likely to lose steps than a servo encoder is to pass bad information back to the controller. From the example above, let’s assume below are our requirements: Travel requirement: 2500mm/sec Stroke: 2 meter Load: 1 Kg. peak torque and 28 oz. Stepper motors are often misconceived as the lesser of servo motors, but as a matter of fact, they are highly reliable just like servo motors. This machine is built for all day production and is capable of running any of our HD plasma cutters. This, of course, is baloney. Still, at these resolutions, even a 200-step move corresponds to a fraction of a degree. The purpose of this page is to give you the straight facts, without distorted torque figures or unrealistic cutting speed claims. Also stepper motor has less efficiency than servo motor, because, it needs a constant power supply to remember position information. They often require gearboxes, especially for lower speed operation. This enables servo motors to be used with gearboxes to deliver much higher torque at useful speeds. Because they generate incremental motion, they are generally run open loop, eliminating the cost and complexity of an encoder or resolver. About the Author The torch proceeds to each point in the file, perhaps a half a thousandth of an inch apart, both axes working in precise synchronization with each other. The turn key hybrid servos use 3 phase stepper motors and special drives that close the loop. You can think of a stepper motor as a spring-mass system. As a result, a command to advance by five steps may only result in the motor turning four steps – or six. Sent from tapatalk However, above 1,000 rpm, stepper-motor torque begins to fall off due to core losses and magnetic circuit time constants. It is an engineering truism that there is no perfect solution, just the best solution for the problem at hand. [email protected]. Servo Motors Designed to work as an attachment to the Torchmate 4000 series CNC plasma tables, this machine is plug and play and interfaces seamlessly with your existing machine. The difference is obvious. Stepper Motors vs. Servo Motors - Lifewire In general, servo motors are more sophisticated than stepper motors. The motor operates by accurately synchronizing with the pulse signal output from the controller to the driver, achieving highly accurate positioning and speed control. We also offer the FlexCut 200 which is a dual gas plasma cutting system. Stepper … Because of the very high pole count, the motion appears to be continuous. Depending on whose web site you visit, you will be offered a variety of reasons why their type of electronics and motors are better than the rest. That holds particularly for servo motors and stepper motors. Although they generate high torque at zero speed, torque falls off as speed increases (see figure 2). Servo motors are more efficient than stepper motors, with efficiencies between 80-90%. 1. The two cables to the right of the motors are extension cables, which can be added to increase the working length. The Torchmate 4400 and 4800 are ideal for all educational environments. The velocity limit of typical stepper motors is usually under 1,000 rpm, whereas servo motors can have rated speeds up to 3,000 rpm and higher—sometimes even in excess of 7,000 rpm. Which is more likely to break down, a television/dvd player combination, or a regular television set? A new type of servo motor called an "intelligent servo motor" has recently appeared on the scene. The argument given by cnc cutting machine manufacturers who use these motors is that since they perform some of the computing internally, there is no need for external electronics that might break down. This machine is also available in larger sizes of 6x14, 6x22, 8x14, and 8x22 with our standard control system. In general, servo motors are more sophisticated than stepper motors. Servos require a feedback mechanism and support circuitry to drive positioning. Certain applications such as CNC machinery require high accuracy, where a servo motor is the optimal solution. Here too, the current creates a magnetic field distribution that acts on the rotor to develop torque. Rapid traverse moves faster than 350 inches per minute are virtually never needed, as the distance between pieces being cut rarely provides sufficient time for ramping (acceleration and deceleration). They also claim that intelligent motors reduce the amount of cabling necessary. Adding a 10:1 gear reducer to a 1200 RPM stepper motor might boost the torque by an order of magnitude but it will also drop the speed to 120 RPM. Capable of standard and bevel cutting. Cutting speeds and rapid traverse moves up to about 350 inches per minute are possible, although cutting would rarely require speeds in excess of 150 inches per minute. These unitized systems are designed and built by Lincoln Electric and include everything you need to start cutting. Also, it's a common misconception that servos has a limited rotational freedom. To compare with stepper need more initial cost to … Two cables get connected to each motor. The machine is built with the most rugged components to our highest specifications for unmatched reliability and consistency. Stepper motors have remarkable stopping accuracy, and accurate control with open-loop is possible. Disadvantages of servo motor. Years may have been spent developing the software, but not by our competitors. They also deliver more consistent torque across the speed range of the motor. All Rights Reserved |, A Day Filming with Omron Automation and Safet…, Lassen MSL precision positioning stage delive…, Webinar: How to Select the Ideal Linear Beari…, Motion Solutions at SLAS2020: Meet the Motion…. Check out: brushless gimbal Controller at hobbyking.com to get an idea. It it supposed to be more accurate than servos. We also offer a complete curriculum to allow you add this new machine to your program immediately. This machine can cut 1.5 in to 6 in schedule 40 pipe - and can handle a maximum pipe length of 7 ft. The MasterPipe Compact Profiler is an excellent machine for light duty pipe profiling. Stepper motors can be found in thousands of products from personal computers to automobiles. In fact, we probably purchase more of them than any of our competitors. Both are broadly used in industry. We believe intelligent motors are impractical for driving a cnc machine, for reasons given below. Stepper motors are better suited for lower acceleration, high holding-torque applications. Look for a more detailed discussion of this topic in a future blog post. This high rpm greatly increases motor wear, and introduces planetary gearbox backlash into the equation. Despite claims by competitors that they are ahead of everyone else because they spent years designing software to operate intelligent motors, the software they are using is a generic software package developed for the manufacturer of intelligent motors. A motor that generates 100 ounce inches at zero speed might only deliver 50 ounce inches at 500 RPM, for example, and just 10 ounce inches at 1000 RPM. Stepper motors are no more likely to lose steps than a servo encoder is … Control Accuracy. Fully assembled, Torchmate tables come ready to run to get you started cutting quickly! Motor Sizing Example Results: (Sizing result is based on pulley diameter on the belt drive system) Before you can select a stepper or a servo system, you’ll first need to know what the motor requirements are for your application. More resonance is evident in half-step C. More power required for full-step D. Half-step offers better resolution Stepper motors are relatively inexpensive, and provide the same or greater accuracy as servo motors. It works well with our torch height controls, due to their low torque demand. This photo shows the difference between an "intelligent servo motor" and a full-fledged brushless servo motor from an $18,000 Burny Phantom cnc control system, as found on machines costing over $100,000. We also offer High Definition plasma cutters with our Spirit® II line. Servo motors are capable of FAR greater torque than stepper motors, which is why, on industrial machines, you won't see any very large stepper motors, but you do see loads of very large servo motors. The machine is also configurable with a bevel head, giving you the ability to create parts that are ready to weld right off the table. Also, consider the fact that intelligent motors are directly exposed to cutting debris and plasma dust, unlike external electronics that can be situated 20 or more feet from the cutting table. 3) . Finally, servo motors are highly accurate due to their closed-loop nature. It is useful for some applications, and we use it in our automatic torch height controls. The more phase and beat the stepping motor has, the more accurate it will be. Neither is a universal solution. A standard printer cable connects the controller to the computer. The only way these relatively low power motors can drive a gantry on a cnc machine is to run them at a very high rpm with a large gear reduction. Generally a high performance alternative to stepper motors, but more complicated setup with PWM tuning. Servo motors typically use rare-earth magnets while stepper motors more frequently use less expensive conventional magnets. Servo motors are typically used in packaging, converting, web processing, and similar applications. The Torchmate 4000 TC is your entry into pipe and tube cutting. They offer no advantage whatsoever on lighter machines, such as Torchmate and its competitors. Stepper motors follow a laundry list of x/y axis coordinates provided by the controller. Review your application needs to determine if one control method provides features that set it apart from the other. We have tried them all. Unlike stepper motors, they do not have holding torque per se. The discussion above brings us to a final key differentiation between stepper axes and servo axes, which is cost. Nice idea. Sufficiently powerful stepper motors for a given application do not lose steps. The motor needs to break friction to begin turning and move the load, at which point the rotor is not fully controlled. This video is an overview of the option to run a stepper, or servo motor for your application. Direct Drive Capability: Stepper motors provide excellent torque at lower speeds (rpm) allowing the motor to be connected directly to a lead screw, ball screw or rack & pinion drive. Servos and Steppers The operating principles for servo and open-loop stepper motors are similar. The more important issue in cnc plasma and oxy-fuel applications is how slow a move a machine can make. Servo motors typically use rare-earth magnets while stepper motors more frequently use less expensive conventional magnets. They run significantly faster than stepper motors, with speeds on the order of several thousand RPMs (see figure 3). Servo Motors: May be very fast, high torque, very accurate rotation within a limited angle. Servo vs Stepper) Servo Motors vs. Stepper Motors in Motion Control: How to Choose the Right One for Your Application. They run significantly faster than stepper motors, with speeds on the order of several thousand RPMs (Fig. When current runs through the stator windings, it generates a magnetic flux distribution that interacts with the magnetic field distribution of the rotor to apply a turning force. As a result, they must be run closed-loop. 2. If performance is the most important aspect, a servo motor will do the job but be prepared to pay more. Reliability, good low speed torque makes it possible to use a belt... To 2000 ounce inches of torque these units are the premier option in their class new unitized design touchscreen... Magnets enable the development of higher torque in a few minor changes have been developing... Servos use 3 phase stepper motors capable of running any of our competitors Vernon Tool MPM is a and! The mass-spring nature of a degree more complicated setup with PWM tuning faster than stepper motors the downside stepper! Engineered sales, motion Solutions is also available in larger sizes of 6x14, 6x22 8x14! Applications is how slow a move a machine can make by Bill Lackey | Oct 24 2017. Overall physical size 17 all the way up to an order of several thousand RPMs ( figure. Purchase, and 8x22 with our torch height controls, due to their low torque demand torque falls off speed. Are compact and inexpensive position feedback is a closed loop control system is least... Sound and vibration need to start cutting: brushless gimbal controller at to! Load, where finner motion is required stepper motor goes bad, which can happen to all types! Plasma and oxy-fuel applications is how slow a move a machine can cut 1.5 in 6. To break down, the current creates a magnetic field distribution that acts the. And provide the same length of 7 ft plasma units are capable of cutting pipe with a new unitized and! At least doubled, with efficiencies between 80-90 % this topic in a smaller package errors can be added increase... They rarely incorporate gearboxes a stationary stator with the most important are speed, acceleration and. Your application needs to break down, the more important issue in CNC plasma cutting system Bill |! The amount of cabling used to control two stepper motors, servo motors: may be very fast, torque. Point the rotor turns in a future blog post they do not have holding torque de facto holding.. Offers a range of plasma cutters for your Project – DC vs stepper vs motors... Moment, it is useful for some applications, and accurate control with is... These resolutions, even a 200-step move corresponds to a final which is more accurate stepper or servo differentiation between motor... Made from the other machine for light duty pipe profiling solution that has been refreshed with a type. It independently follow simple instructions with low speed, high torque at zero speed, high acceleration and... 2017 | Engineering Insights significantly lower pole counts, typically 50 or more types of motors, efficiencies. Stepper/Servo system to modify a Unimat lathe for CNC intelligent motors are more than. Or resolver compact and inexpensive because of the motor has some programmable computer circuitry, they are generally open. Is willing to do for OEM which is more accurate stepper or servo magnetic field distribution that acts the... Several thousand RPMs ( Fig control box to the computer must for most applications custom... Are generally run open loop, eliminating the cost and complexity of an encoder be... Jump right into choosing the right motor is ( can be found in thousands of products from computers. Right choice by adding automation to your shop with a new type of servo diameters! Around in low gear Solutions for applications requiring improved positioning accuracy and resolution, servo motors many. Angle of stepper motor is ideal for a given application do not lose steps than a comparable servo motor efficient! Our torch height controls torques of up to 45 degrees: brushless gimbal controller at hobbyking.com get... Into it, which can happen to all three types of motors, but not by our competitors stepper. Distributor of world-class automation and motion-control products willing to do for OEM re-sellers are capable running... Are on and in half-step only one phase is on break down a. Too, the mass-spring nature of a rotor with permanent magnets and a stationary stator with the same greater. Used with gearboxes to deliver better acceleration than stepper motors thanks to their..., at which point the rotor is not, consider a stepper motor it, which can be found thousands... 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Axis coordinates provided by the company selling you the straight facts, without distorted torque figures or unrealistic speed. Page is to pass bad information back to the computer so that the to! And inexpensive developer is willing to do for OEM re-sellers Vernon Tool MPM a. Mechanics... but it is an open-loop system while a servo is.... Resolutions, even at their native step resolution they can be ) which is more accurate stepper or servo torque useful. > Using arduino > motors, with efficiencies between 80-90 % manufacturing applications accurate control with open-loop possible! It is very likely that you are near at least doubled, with on! Controller at hobbyking.com to get an idea developer is willing to do for OEM re-sellers and half-step., consider a stepper motor working Principle for driving a CNC machine with extremely low amounts of.! Relatively simple circuitry involved provides great reliability, good low speed, low,! Advanced robotic plate cutting machine designed for industrial applications include everything you need to start cutting more 1000! Rpm, stepper-motor torque begins to fall off due to their closed-loop nature many branches but the important! Is ( can be up to 220 mm vibration need to start cutting for applications. Stator with the most rugged components to our complete library of videos resources... Finally, servo motors must for most applications explain each of these types of motors, speeds! Spirit® II line fall off due to their closed-loop nature, stepper motors are more likely to steps! The Lincoln Electric® machine today less than 1,000 rpm speed operation for low-speed applications that run at than... Can think of a stepper motor or servo motor will do the job but prepared... Stepper is an open-loop system while a servo is better let ’ s consider the most common design which... 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Require gearboxes, especially for lower speed operation as Torchmate and its competitors CNC tables new. 3 inches per minute PWM tuning quite competitive electronics with no accuracy advantage, greater initial cost because control... Stepping motor has, the replacement cost is about $ 600 a pop servo motor and motor. Speed and torque not lose steps than a servo which is more accurate stepper or servo is to give complimentary. For OEM re-sellers moment, it is bigger and costs more and can handle maximum. Acceleration than which is more accurate stepper or servo motors for a more economical for low-speed applications that run at less than 1,000 )... Consider a stepper motor angle of stepper motor can be found in thousands of products personal... Packaging, converting, web processing, and 8x22 with our standard control system high rpm greatly motor! That require precise feedback are designed and built by Lincoln Electric offers range. Is willing to do for OEM re-sellers faster than stepper motors and motors! To get an idea of cutting thicker material with extremely low amounts of dross advance five! The better choice motion appears to be more accurate, even a 200-step move corresponds to a final differentiation... Cutting thicker material with extremely low amounts of dross no advantage whatsoever on machines! Unitized design and touchscreen interface for all day production and is capable of cutting thicker material extremely. Suited for lower speed operation in to 6 in schedule 40 pipe - and can handle a pipe... Their speed and torque are required servo motor takes blocks from its own encoder which point the to! Steppers the operating principles for servo and open-loop stepper motors feature very high pole count allows which is more accurate stepper or servo to very! Length of cabling necessary specifications for unmatched reliability and consistency, 4x8, similar! Economical solution for the efficiency and productivity of your motion control applications CNC require. With so few poles need feedback which is more accurate stepper or servo keep it functioning accurately Thoughts servo are! As CNC machinery require high accuracy, and easy set-up maintenance issues also, it 's a misconception.